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Speeding Tickets & Traffic Citations Discussion of appropriate procedures and guidelines to successfully fighting speeding tickets and related traffic citations.

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  #1 (permalink)   IP: 219.89.42.93
Old 2009-05-13
chopsnz chopsnz is offline
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Question Laser Gun proper use?

Hi Guys

I've tried to find this information on line about the correct use of a laser gun..no joy yet.

I was driving back down the road in good old New Zealand when the V1 (laser) went off and I noticed a parked car in the distance which turned out to be a patrol car.

Now this is the bit I'm curious on. I was aware that the officer was sitting inside the car and using the laser sitting inside the car reflecting it off the side mirror off the patrol car. The car was pointing in the same direction as I was and he was not pointing the gun straight at my car.

From my understanding, using the laser gun this way can give inaccurate readings.

I would be grateful for any feedback on the more clued up members here.

Cheers
Chops (New Zealand)
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  #2 (permalink)   IP: 192.168.2.1
Old 2009-05-13
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Veil Guy Veil Guy is offline
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Default Police Laser Bouncing off Sideview Mirrors

Cheers mate!

How are things in Kiwi land?

With regard to your question, I heard a number of Texas DPS patrol officers discussing this very topic some years back, in fact they mentioned that some "cowboys" were using laser to clock vehicles' speeds approaching from behind while they were moving (bouncing police laser off the side-view or the rear-view mirrors).

I don't suspect that IACP would officially sanction the targeting methodology or even the manufacturers of the police lasers, however, I do believe that it is technically possible.

It's been my experience that the error trapping software of police lasers have evolved (as manifested in Gen III/IV police lasers) to be pretty sophisticated and if anything, I believe, using police laser this way while technically possible probably handicaps the targeting officer more than anything.

Given that the speed of light travels at nearly 300,000,000 metres per second, the laser gun makes a series of pulse-train distance measurements subject to advanced filtering algorithms, and I assume the other targeting variables are essentially constant during the clocking procedure (ie; limited panning errors, targeting the reflection is a consistent manner), I believe it is technically possible to measure the relative closing distance(s) in each discreet measure during your approach behind him.

Whether or not he could actually issue you a ticket that could stand up to a challenge in any given court, is beyond my scope.

However, given your obvious knowledge of the subject, coupled with your observations, I suspect your could either mention it to the officer at the window (at the time of the stop) or at any hearing and it may introduce enough "doubt" to allow some negotiating room for a dismissal.

Perhaps I produce a video, demonstrating the targeting method, if you would like and we could all learn something from it.

What do you say about that?

And, welcome to our forum, mate, it'll be great to have your input and contributions about how things are "down-under."

Cheers.

Veil Guy


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  #3 (permalink)   IP: 76.190.193.28
Old 2009-05-14
TSi+WRX TSi+WRX is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Veil Guy View Post
I don't suspect that IACP would officially sanction the targeting methodology or even the manufacturers of the police lasers, however, I do believe that it is technically possible.
+1.

It'll work, and there are plenty of hobbyists who can affirm this via their first-hand experience - and if you searched YouTube and the like chopsnz, you'll even find such.

But it's definitely not "in the books."


Quote:
Whether or not he could actually issue you a ticket that could stand up to a challenge in any given court, is beyond my scope.

However, given your obvious knowledge of the subject, coupled with your observations, I suspect your could either mention it to the officer at the window (at the time of the stop) or at any hearing and it may introduce enough "doubt" to allow some negotiating room for a dismissal.
I think that this is really tenuous ground.

In court, it becomes a case of he-said/she-said.

If the officer chooses to testify, falsely, that the reading was not obtained through the rearview, when you yourself saw, truthfully, that he did.....

Without concrete proof, who will the judge listen to?

What's more, physically capturing, via videotape, particularly in a covert nature, the encounter, is legally forbidden in many areas - this compounds our "burden of proof," particularly if the enforcer him/herself does not admit to such tactics openly, either at the time the citation was issued (i.e. that you can get them to commit, to writing or on their own video/audio recording equipment, that they used such a tactic), or at trial.

Does this technique work? Undoubtedly.

Is this technique officially sanctioned/approved? No.

Can you use the latter fact to help plea your case? Tenuous.

Does this technique benefit the enforcer?

That's a complicated question.

I think that in terms of presenting perhaps a enforcement scenario which not many members of the driving public are aware of, either in presenting a "different" cruiser (4-wheel) profile or in securing a better hiding location (either 4-wheel or 2-wheel) it can be an advantage - but that as Veil Guy said, in terms of practicality, it may be more a handicap.....

Truthfully, I think using that technique is more trouble than it's worth - and that a better trap setup, better tradecraft by the enforcer, would eliminate the need for such unorthodox and technically/legally questionable use of his instrument.


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  #4 (permalink)   IP: 74.244.93.194
Old 2009-05-14
category4 category4 is offline
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Another reason to run a video camera all the time. If he testified that he was properly using the lidar and not using the mirror and then you pull out the video.

I think at that point everything he said becomes questionable in the eyes of the court.


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  #5 (permalink)   IP: 76.190.193.28
Old 2009-05-14
TSi+WRX TSi+WRX is offline
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^ category4 -

I'm no lawyer, as I've openly posted many times. But it was my understanding from reading some of the posts on RadarDetector.net, from our fellow hobbyists and enthusiasts, that using such recording systems to videotape a law-enforcement encounter may be against the law, specifically if it is done so without permission of the enforcer "interviewed."

Is there any truth to that?


TSi+WRX's Sig:- Allen/Usual Suspect "DumboRAT"/One of the Three Stooges

LI Rev.2.8, Ver.7.03 - quad 8.0A-f w/ 8.5 Slim-r
LPP v8.3h(CAN/AU)/10.1s, 2xF/1xR
9500i, Red (4307) w/ZR3
VEIL G4
CR8APL8s, w/LaserShield(F)
Cheetah GPS-Mirror

[ Wifey's FXT -> Bue 8500x50 (Rev.5); LI Rev.2.9, Ver.7.08 - dual 8.5 ]

Me: '05 Legacy 2.5GT Ltd., mildly modified
Wifey: '09 Forester XT, barely modded
Baby-Anna: too short to reach any pedals!
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