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Radar Jammers Discussion of active radar jammers, passive radar scramblers, and police radar jamming related technologies.

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  #6 (permalink)   IP: 76.190.193.28
Old 2008-11-12
TSi+WRX TSi+WRX is offline
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fastfist -

Shelton has provided an incredibly thorough as well as well-thought-out "primer" for you above. I really think that you'd do well to read and re-read his post a couple of times.

In terms of where I stand, I would advise you to first set a reasonable budget. Although it truly is often desireable to spend the big-bucks and get one of the "top-flight" radar detectors out there, this is not an absolute "need" - and most drivers will get just as much protection from even "second-tier" products. But if you do have the dough, I'd urge considering (in no particular order):

Valentine1 - particularly if you're not averse to hitting the mute button and otherwise interacting with your detector, and also if you travel or live upon open-highway scenarios or live in a more rural area; "detector desensitivity" becomes a risk, and you will, by definition, have to be the final-filter.

Escort 9500ix - especially if you live in a densely urban area and desire a "quieter" detector, along with the need for a red-light and/or speed-camera advance-warning; in terms of shortcomings, you will trade-off a bit of situational awareness as compared to the V1, and also perhaps just a little absolute raw sensitivity.

Bel STi-Driver - if you live in a detector-banned area, this is the only stand-alone, in-vehicle detector that is fully cloaked, and so, it's thus, the default and only choice; no cons, really, except for the fact that aside from this particular needed feature, it's not all that filled with frills - think of it as a purpose-built machine.

And if you have the really, really big bucks, and wish for a fully-integrated and near-invisible (visually) system, the Escort 9500ci or the Bel STi-R would be the way to go.

In terms of laser jammers, you'd do well to take a step back, get some coffee and grab a snack, and sit down to a few night's worth of background reading. Yes, there's a lot of hype and a lot of chest-thumping, but what it will come down to, in the end, is the need to find *YOU* a jammer that works for *YOUR* specific needs, based on your personal preferences, and also one that fits within your budget.

To make your life somewhat easier, I currently recommend only the following products (again, listed in no particular order):

Escort ZR4 - for seamless integration into Escort and Bel products and the distinct capability to denote front versus rear attacks, and in being the only jammer that can selectively be turned into a receiver only, for travel through or use in jammer-banned areas, should the end-user wish to abide by such; in terms of negatives, it is undeniable that its performance is not top-shelf, and will require the use of passive protective measures to synergize.

Laser Interceptor - undeniably "the king of the hill," when it comes to jammer performance, with a so-far "perfect" customer-service record in its current North American distributor; a potential problem exists in that no-one really knows of the unit's long-term durability/reliability, since it is so young (this can, however, also be said of the current iterations of both the Escort and Blinder products) and more concerning, the fact that this LI is a very "young" company, in an industry where upstarts do tend to come-and-go, seemingly at-whim.

Blinder - the 5-suffix (M25, 35, and 45 units), J16, has proven itself very formidable in terms of performance, easily eclipsing that of its fellow LED-based competition, and when more heads are used, comes close to the protection offered by the laser-diode based units...and to this, you can add a proven long-term presence in the community and industry, along with a rock-solid customer-service base that's come to, over the years, really be appreciated by even the enthusiast-base; negatives? potential extreme long-range and extreme short-range burn-throughs, as well as, if you use more heads, the need for more "suitable real-estate" on your vehicle to mount the heads.

Why am I limiting my recommendation, of LIDAR jammers, to only these three products?

Because these three are, so-far, the *only* products that offer proven performance against the LTI TruSpeed, which has emerged, over the course of the past half-year, to be *the* up-and-coming threat.

The LPP, AL G8 (and even its evolutionary replacement, the G9), PASS, and LaserStar all offer *no* protection against this new device, which has already seen to have permeated select US markets, and will likely soon become even more popular than that.


TSi+WRX's Sig:- Allen/Usual Suspect "DumboRAT"/One of the Three Stooges

LI Rev.2.8, Ver.7.03 - quad 8.0A-f w/ 8.5 Slim-r
LPP v8.3h(CAN/AU)/10.1s, 2xF/1xR
9500i, Red (4307) w/ZR3
VEIL G4
CR8APL8s, w/LaserShield(F)
Cheetah GPS-Mirror

[ Wifey's FXT -> Bue 8500x50 (Rev.5); LI Rev.2.9, Ver.7.08 - dual 8.5 ]

Me: '05 Legacy 2.5GT Ltd., mildly modified
Wifey: '09 Forester XT, barely modded
Baby-Anna: too short to reach any pedals!
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  #7 (permalink)   IP: 98.17.130.72
Old 2008-11-12
steagall1000 steagall1000 is offline
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SheltonJ,

Very nicely stated! That about sums it up.





Quote:
Originally Posted by SheltonJ View Post
There is a lot of information here, and it can be a bit much to digest it all at once. So lets start with some basics.
1. There are radar detectors. Lots of choices here, lots of high strung opinion. Wide variation in budget, features, ergonomics, sensitivity, etc. etc.
Bottom line, you get what you pay for and personal preference plays a large role. Your personal driving style can also have a huge impact here. The closer to the edge of the envelope you tend to drive the more you need to spend here, and the more you should learn about behavioral things that can help your odds significantly.
2. Laser detectors. Many radar detectors (rd for short) have laser detection capability. Very few of them have enough sensitivity to pick up the very narrow (compared to radar) beam with any reliability. Even those that do, mostly alert you to the fact that you have just qualified to receive a speeding ticket. The acquisition time is short enough that you are already toast. Still, they are useful to learn where LIDAR traps live and learn to recognize them in advance, but not to actually avoid an unexpected speed trap. The Valentine 1 and a few others in that price range are sensitive enough, but you are still already done for.
3. Radar Jammers. Due to FCC regulations, there is (legally anyway) no such thing.
4. LIDAR Jammers. Since these emit light, they are regulated by the FDA (can't be putting peoples eyes out with those things!). These exist and work very well. They also function as LIDAR detectors, but generally as a side effect of announcing that they are jamming something. Goal number one is to give you enough time to slow down. Once you have slowed, the jammer should be disabled to allow the nice LEO the opportunity to measure your (now legal) speed. A lot of people focus on Jam To Gun (JTG) performance. If you get really focused on this area you can determine the importance of this criteria for yourself. Jammer installation is critical, both in terms of placement and alignment. A poorly installed jammer will work poorly, if at all, even if it is one of the best on the market.
Picking a jammer is one of the more complex tasks, based on your overall goals, budget, car, zodiac sign and political party.
5. Passive LIDAR counter measures. This includes Laser Veil and various license plate protectors. In general these work by making your car (or certain parts of it) less shiny in the infra-red portion of the spectrum that LIDAR uses. This is an application of some of the principles behind stealth technology. Limitations include the size, shape, color of your car and the skill with which you apply the products. Reports indicate that for some cars, this combined with a laser detecting RD can give you a fighting chance. Generally considered to be complementary with jammers.
6. Red light cameras. A fairly new threat, the countermeasures for these are all basically a GPS system tied to a database of red light cameras. It tells you when you are coming up one. Some rds include this capability. Virtually unknown in some areas, but horribly common in others. The trend is that they will be everywhere, perhaps by the middle of next week.

So you need to know your budget, the threats in your area (do they use LIDAR much? Red light cameras? Instant-on?), the rules in your area (are rds illegal, necessitating RDD invisible RDs?) and your vehicle (shiny monster trucks are harder to stealth than dark pointy sports cars).

Lots of information out there, your budget will determine what kinds of counter measures you can afford. A full out RD/Jammer/Veil/GPS based system could easily run you 1500-3000 depending on choices.
In some parts of the country that could be recovered by avoiding 2-3 tickets.

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  #8 (permalink)   IP: 98.17.130.72
Old 2008-11-12
steagall1000 steagall1000 is offline
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TSi+WRX,

Some great advice from both you and sheltonJ. Thats kinda how I had to start out was to budget myself. I had my V1 for years before I could even look at a jammer. I took things one step at a time. Now I have just about everything I need in the way of Laser/radar protection. But it sure took a long time to get there. I believe doing the research and asking questions is where it starts. I had so many questions about jammers and radar detectors when I first started researching these things. I'm glad I had asked the question before I made my purchases.


Quote:
Originally Posted by TSi+WRX View Post
^ That's excellent advice.

Start backwards - set a budget (and note if your budget is flexible, and by how much you can "flex"), determine what kind of protection you're looking for, and whether or not you are willing to undertake passive protective measures (and to what extent you are willing to compromise to pursue such).

The technical questions are easy. Facts answer those.

It's your personal preferences and your unique needs that becomes the harder match, and is typically also the cause of more confusion - as well as sleepless nights, as you debate over the pros and cons.

But alas, that second part, no-one can really help you with. You simply have to make the decision, yourself. Being a reasoning adult, sucks - you have no-one but yourself to blame for the mistakes you make.

I'd much rather be a toddler!

My daughter says that we "boss her around" all the time, but heck, she's got all her important life-decisions taken care of!

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  #9 (permalink)   IP: 72.218.1.245
Old 2008-11-12
SCGT SCGT is offline
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QUOTE=TSi+WRX;2293

Escort ZR4 - for seamless integration into Escort and Bel products and the distinct capability to denote front versus rear attacks, and in being the only jammer that can selectively be turned into a receiver only, for travel through or use in jammer-banned areas, should the end-user wish to abide by such; in terms of negatives, it is undeniable that its performance is not top-shelf, and will require the use of passive protective measures to synergize.

Are you saying this has a switch to turn off the jammer while the detector is still on and working? Such as the 9500ci w/ ZR4s.
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  #10 (permalink)   IP: 76.190.193.28
Old 2008-11-14
TSi+WRX TSi+WRX is offline
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Correct.

Any of the Escort/Bel products capable of supporting co-function with the ZR4 Laser Shifter (and unfortunately, I am not familiar enough with the *entire* family line-up of both of these sister companies to be of good service here - I would recommend that you speak directly to Bel or Escort personnel, if their websites do not offer sufficient insight into this concern), called "Integration," can indeed selectively shut-down the jammer during an actual encounter. This includes many of their stand-alone, in-vehicle detectors, such as the 9500i, 9500ix and 8500x50 (my lack of intimate familiarity with the Bel line-up makes me reluctant to say more, of their products, and I hope you understand that this is a limitation of my ignorance, not of their products).

The scenario would be as-follows:

- Jammer/detector on, at vehicle start-up.
- LIDAR encounter.
- Jammer/detector alerts and jams.
- User selectively shuts-down the jammer (while still retaining detection).

The 9500ci, as-delivered, actually has the ZR4s in "Receive Only" mode. This is to facilitate sales of the product in jammer-banned areas of the country. The end-user needs to enable "Shifting" (what Escort calls "jamming") of the 9500ci, upon initial start-up.

Currently, the Escort products capable of supporting the ZR4 can also be, either via hardware manipulation (various buttons) or via Escort's Detector Tools software interface, be adjusted for this function (i.e. "Shift" enabled, "Receive Only," or "Shifters Off").

If you pair the ZR4 with the Bel STi-R, I *_BELIEVE_* (again, my lack of intimate knowledge of the Bel products is a handicap, here, and I apologize) that you will have to retain the ZR4's own control module, and button-press it (or its remote) in order to either mute the audible alert and/or shut-down the jammer output, whereas with the 9500ci, the switchgear is "integrated."

With the ZR4-compatible Escort stand-alone, in-vehicle detectors, such as the 9500i or ix, the ZR4 comes with an extra cable that allows the detector to physically "Link" with the ZR4 unit, and with the use of a supplemental (included in-purchase of the ZR4) specialized remote mute/control button, both control the detector's muting functions, as well as the jammer's output.


TSi+WRX's Sig:- Allen/Usual Suspect "DumboRAT"/One of the Three Stooges

LI Rev.2.8, Ver.7.03 - quad 8.0A-f w/ 8.5 Slim-r
LPP v8.3h(CAN/AU)/10.1s, 2xF/1xR
9500i, Red (4307) w/ZR3
VEIL G4
CR8APL8s, w/LaserShield(F)
Cheetah GPS-Mirror

[ Wifey's FXT -> Bue 8500x50 (Rev.5); LI Rev.2.9, Ver.7.08 - dual 8.5 ]

Me: '05 Legacy 2.5GT Ltd., mildly modified
Wifey: '09 Forester XT, barely modded
Baby-Anna: too short to reach any pedals!
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