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-   Police Laser (LIDAR) Enforcement (https://www.speedtraphunter.net/police-laser-lidar-enforcement/)
-   -   Laser distance, angle & operation (https://www.speedtraphunter.net/police-laser-lidar-enforcement/1809-laser-distance-angle-operation.html)

Michael B 2009-09-15 09:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by esprit888 (Post 4717)
Hi All,
I am trying to find details concerning the optimum distance and operational guidlines for typical (is there such a thing?) police lasers. I recently received an excessive speeding ticket that was way beyond the capabilities of the car. The officer (who was actually a very nice young guy)was sitting in his car, holding the laser in his hand, he stated he had me at a distance of 795 meters, going away from him, and up a very steep hill (with two cars close behind me)
He would have been at least 100feet below me and i am sure his view would have been partially obscured by the other two vehicles. The beam at that distance i believe would have been in excess of 3 meters (10feet?) I am attempting to identify the type of device used but i was told that at that distance the slightest movement of the laser would render inaccurate readings unless the device was on a tripod? Also that typically the police use 500 to 700 feet as an optimum distance for accuracy?
Are there any web based resources to read up on the use, distance, beam width etc?
Many thanks

Welcome to the forum,
It would be very helpful if you could find out the make and model of the laser gun that was used.
From the laser guns I have tested, I have never received an incorrect reading. When there is an error, it is reported as an error with no speed indication.
Maybe the laser gun in use is different than the ones I have used and that is why it would be important to know more information regarding the make and model.

Quote:

Originally Posted by esprit888 (Post 4738)
All speeds and measurements in metric. I was heading up the hill (shown on the picture attached ) and had passed one vehicle on the flat section and another on the rising section before pulling in prior to the passing line terminating (as the officer said, all done correctly with signals etc) He commented to me whilst issuing the ticket that he had me at 80KPH as I was passing the second vehicle and that he ‘gave me' that as I needed to pass safely and get back in prior to the bend. He then stated that I continued to accelerate up the hill before the road curves out of sight, and that he locked on at a speed of 148KPH (the posted speed is 60KPH) When my passenger questioned the officer about the distance the officer retrieved the laser and showed the indicated speed of 148KPH and a distance of 798 meters. I should note that the picture is taken approx half way between the officers hidden car and the 795 meter mark. I am going to take pictures from the officers hiding spot to the 795 meter mark (using a friends laser range finder) and place my car at the exact point along, hopefully, with two other cars behind me to accurately reflect the conditions. The time was 1730 and the sun was very bright at the top of the tree line cresting the hill.

My concerns are, after trying to duplicate the speeds and verifying the performance capabilities of my car, it simply is not possible to accelerate from 80 to 148KPH in the time or distance available before going out of sight. The officer who issued the ticket was the driver of the police car and was hand holding the laser utilizing his other arm as a steadying point. I am looking for answers or pointers to the following:

1.)Is it acceptable/common practice to handhold the laser at distances approaching 800 meters?

The beam width would be approaching 2.4 meters in diameter at this distance
Quote:

Originally Posted by esprit888 (Post 4738)
2.)Is it possible that slight movement by the officers hand would result in an erroneous reading ? (wide beam divergence)

Not that I am aware of but knowing the make and model of the laser gun used could be very helpful in obtaining more information.
Quote:

Originally Posted by esprit888 (Post 4738)
3.)Would the suns blinding of the laser have any effect?

As far as I am aware, this would only have affected the range.
Quote:

Originally Posted by esprit888 (Post 4738)
4.)What is the optimum range officers are trained to operate the laser at?

Depends on what is acceptable by your court system. In the USA it is typically 1000ft or less.

What speed do you feel that you actually obtained during this encounter?
What country are you in?

esprit888 2009-09-15 12:28

Thanks Michael,
I am attempting to obtain the laser make/model and will advise once i get a response. To answer your questions:
What speed do you feel that you actually obtained during this encounter?
I would estimate, based on my attempts to duplicate the event, between 95 to 100.
What country are you in?
Canada

I appreciate the beam width info , could you also answer the hand held at 800 meters? I recall in the early days of Laser they were always on a tripod and i imagine tech advances have allowed some form of steadying software, but as a hunter i know how hard it is to maintain a steady sight at those kinds of distances.

Michael B 2009-09-15 13:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by esprit888 (Post 4747)
Thanks Michael,
I am attempting to obtain the laser make/model and will advise once i get a response. To answer your questions:
What speed do you feel that you actually obtained during this encounter?
I would estimate, based on my attempts to duplicate the event, between 95 to 100.
What country are you in?
Canada

I appreciate the beam width info , could you also answer the hand held at 800 meters? I recall in the early days of Laser they were always on a tripod and i imagine tech advances have allowed some form of steadying software, but as a hunter i know how hard it is to maintain a steady sight at those kinds of distances.

Thank you for your reply.

May I ask what part or Province of Canada?
The reason for asking is in the event you are not able to determine the type of laser gun used, others in your area may be familiar with the type of laser used but without your general location, Canada is a big place and what is used in your province may not be what is used in other provinces.

Unfortunately while I sympathize with your situation, a recreation does not always take into account everything that was involved at the time of the original incident. Take adrenalin for example as you had just passed a vehicle. I am not saying you were in the wrong for attempting a recreation; I am merely stating it would be best to have been aware of your speed at the time of the incident as it reflects directly to the point at hand being his recorded speed of 148KPH

Assuming your recreation to be reasonable at 100KPH, this is still a far cry from the 148KPH recorded so there is something still missing from the equation.

Do you know if the car you passed was attempting to catch back up to you for a game of cat and mouse? If so and you were doing 100KPH, he would have had to been going faster to close the gap on you.

I recall that early police lasers were not successful at working thru glass but I have heard that recent advances may have improved upon their usage. I do not believe it would have received an erroneous speed reading being used in this way; however I would suspect the working distance may be reduced and the accuracy of pinpointing the target vehicle may be in question due to refraction of the light if the glass was not 90 deg to the laser.

Hopefully someone with information about laser bending thru a windshield can chime in here.

Do you know if the laser was used thru glass based upon where the LEO was parked and the direction of his vehicle?

esprit888 2009-09-15 14:03

I am in British Columbia, I was aware of my surroundings but was focused more on the ending of the passing section and the impending blind curve at the top of the hill. Typically most vehicles accelerate up this section as its fairly steep, and then turns into several long sweeping curves. I do recall a car coming from the other direction around the curve once I crested the hill but I don’t believe it would have been in the line of site of the officer. On the return trip back down the hill I could see why I had missed the location of the police car. He was backed up a temporary driveway hidden behind some bushes with the drivers side window at an angle of approx 45 degrees to the road. I believe the driver was the operator of the laser and would therefore not be pointing through the windshield. I was able to download the operations manual for the Pro-laser III (file is too large to upload here) which informs the operator that:

'Due to the extremely narrow beamwidth of the ProLaser III that makes precise target identification possible, it may be difficult to aim at long ranges if operated handheld.' It also confirms the beamwidth of 3 meters at 1000 meters’ .

esprit888 2009-09-15 17:17

Although not relevant i will mention that this province (BC) was the one who spent millions on photo radar equipment, ran it for a while only to cancel the program due to a mass filing of disputes and constitutional legality. Now this guy has a novel approach :)
MSN Autos (EN): Cheeky monkey! Phoenix man uses mask to foil photo radar cameras


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