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  #11 (permalink)   IP: 129.22.226.41
Old 2008-10-28
TSi+WRX TSi+WRX is offline
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On the note of durability/reliability -

I do not think that it is fair, at all, to say that any of the laser-diode (CLED) based jammers are far-inferior to their LED-based counterparts (specifically, the Blinder and Escort products), in terms of overall durability/reliability, particularly given the current "state-of-existence" of the comparable LED products.

Although both Blinder and Escort have racked up what can only be said to be the most impressive miles-on-road and years-on-road data, when it comes to overall durability/reliability, neither are perfect, and evidence of this exists aplenty on the "older" community discussion Forums, such as RD.net, and also are logged in the memories of those who have been in this hobby for some time.

The Escort ZR3, for example, saw its first failures nearly a year after the product was initially introduced - and it was through this hard-won experience that Escort's reliability/durability parameters were revamped.

Yet, still, on RD.net, after the initial introduction of the current ZR4, it only took weeks - and in some cases, just days - for several members to have encountered weathersealing problems of not only the forward heads, but also even of the rear.

Obviously, although Escort's had much experience in this matter - but while their previous experience did help guide them, it could not insure that a revamped hardware design would not cause such issues, and it is clear from the experience of those early-adopters that this is well the case.

Even now, we need to remember that the new ZR4 has seen less time-on-road than even the replacement batch of LI heads, claimed as a part of their warranty services (to add to this example, one needs to be reminded that we did not see issues with the LI's initial-US-batch [ver. 8.0 heads] until well after MONTHS of use, in-comparison to the same rash of issues with the ZR4, after only weeks). Furthermore, that the ZR4, in comparison to the current-iteration LPP, now stands well beyond a year, in trailing availability of durability/reliability data.

In terms of the Blinder, much the same, again, can be said about its undeniably impressive durability/reliability record. It is likely the most widespread of the "enthusiast" level LED-based jammers (discounting the Escort and K40, both on the basis that they are oftentimes either marketed as a dealer-add-on at higher-end auto dealers, as well as sometimes "given away" in that same respect), and to the best of my knowledge, few, if any complaints, are ever lodged against the old 0-suffix (M40/30/20) units, in greater autodom, with only occasional claims submitted against them in the speed-detections countermeasures community.

Nevertheless, while such extraordinarily positive data exists for the older Blinder products, claims against the new 5-suffix units (M45/35/25) are not unknown. I was, myself, rather shocked to hear of such issues, but as you can well see from RR.net (ref: Radar Detector Reviews & Radar Detectors Review Forum & Test - View Single Post - CONSUMER ALERT!! Laser Star officially sucks balls ), this is not something that can be ignored, again, particularly of such a "new" unit.

Currently - speaking solely of jammers that are bought NEW, retail - the LPP has been on-road the longest, and truly maintains the best durability/reliability record.

The new ZR4 trails both the 5-suffix (M45/35/25) Blinders (and to this, I should add, that there's even less known of the J16s, due to their even younger age and the fact that the critical jamming LEDs have been updated) as well as the Laser Interceptor by a wide margin, when it comes to their time-on-road and miles-on-road.

Yes, past history should be examined, when we're talking about durability and reliability, but a more accurate of the PRESENT circumstances should also be dissected, in-detail.

----

That all-said.....

Please do not read my statements above, regarding durability/reliability, as some kind of "push" for you to go that way, vschuel.

I was only examining that particular issue (durability/reliability), in the above presentation.

Currently, I do *NOT* see the current-generation LPP as a viable jammer - particularly in your area and proposed areas of travel - due to the inability of this unit to protect against the LTI TruSpeed.

My recommendation would be either to go with the Blinder M25 (or M35), J16 - or, alternatively, the LI (dual), 7.06.

And honestly, given your vehicle, the ZR4 should do well, too. However, given its early weathersealing issues, I'd shy away from this product, at least for the moment-being, until at least it reaches its anniversary date.


TSi+WRX's Sig:- Allen/Usual Suspect "DumboRAT"/One of the Three Stooges

LI Rev.2.8, Ver.7.03 - quad 8.0A-f w/ 8.5 Slim-r
LPP v8.3h(CAN/AU)/10.1s, 2xF/1xR
9500i, Red (4307) w/ZR3
VEIL G4
CR8APL8s, w/LaserShield(F)
Cheetah GPS-Mirror

[ Wifey's FXT -> Bue 8500x50 (Rev.5); LI Rev.2.9, Ver.7.08 - dual 8.5 ]

Me: '05 Legacy 2.5GT Ltd., mildly modified
Wifey: '09 Forester XT, barely modded
Baby-Anna: too short to reach any pedals!
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  #12 (permalink)   IP: 74.78.49.198
Old 2008-10-28
vschuel vschuel is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TSi+WRX View Post
On the note of durability/reliability -

I do not think that it is fair, at all, to say that any of the laser-diode (CLED) based jammers are far-inferior to their LED-based counterparts (specifically, the Blinder and Escort products), in terms of overall durability/reliability, particularly given the current "state-of-existence" of the comparable LED products.

Although both Blinder and Escort have racked up what can only be said to be the most impressive miles-on-road and years-on-road data, when it comes to overall durability/reliability, neither are perfect, and evidence of this exists aplenty on the "older" community discussion Forums, such as RD.net, and also are logged in the memories of those who have been in this hobby for some time.

The Escort ZR3, for example, saw its first failures nearly a year after the product was initially introduced - and it was through this hard-won experience that Escort's reliability/durability parameters were revamped.

Yet, still, on RD.net, after the initial introduction of the current ZR4, it only took weeks - and in some cases, just days - for several members to have encountered weathersealing problems of not only the forward heads, but also even of the rear.

Obviously, although Escort's had much experience in this matter - but while their previous experience did help guide them, it could not insure that a revamped hardware design would not cause such issues, and it is clear from the experience of those early-adopters that this is well the case.

Even now, we need to remember that the new ZR4 has seen less time-on-road than even the replacement batch of LI heads, claimed as a part of their warranty services (to add to this example, one needs to be reminded that we did not see issues with the LI's initial-US-batch [ver. 8.0 heads] until well after MONTHS of use, in-comparison to the same rash of issues with the ZR4, after only weeks). Furthermore, that the ZR4, in comparison to the current-iteration LPP, now stands well beyond a year, in trailing availability of durability/reliability data.

In terms of the Blinder, much the same, again, can be said about its undeniably impressive durability/reliability record. It is likely the most widespread of the "enthusiast" level LED-based jammers (discounting the Escort and K40, both on the basis that they are oftentimes either marketed as a dealer-add-on at higher-end auto dealers, as well as sometimes "given away" in that same respect), and to the best of my knowledge, few, if any complaints, are ever lodged against the old 0-suffix (M40/30/20) units, in greater autodom, with only occasional claims submitted against them in the speed-detections countermeasures community.

Nevertheless, while such extraordinarily positive data exists for the older Blinder products, claims against the new 5-suffix units (M45/35/25) are not unknown. I was, myself, rather shocked to hear of such issues, but as you can well see from RR.net (ref: Radar Detector Reviews & Radar Detectors Review Forum & Test - View Single Post - CONSUMER ALERT!! Laser Star officially sucks balls ), this is not something that can be ignored, again, particularly of such a "new" unit.

Currently - speaking solely of jammers that are bought NEW, retail - the LPP has been on-road the longest, and truly maintains the best durability/reliability record.

The new ZR4 trails both the 5-suffix (M45/35/25) Blinders (and to this, I should add, that there's even less known of the J16s, due to their even younger age and the fact that the critical jamming LEDs have been updated) as well as the Laser Interceptor by a wide margin, when it comes to their time-on-road and miles-on-road.

Yes, past history should be examined, when we're talking about durability and reliability, but a more accurate of the PRESENT circumstances should also be dissected, in-detail.

----

That all-said.....

Please do not read my statements above, regarding durability/reliability, as some kind of "push" for you to go that way, vschuel.

I was only examining that particular issue (durability/reliability), in the above presentation.

Currently, I do *NOT* see the current-generation LPP as a viable jammer - particularly in your area and proposed areas of travel - due to the inability of this unit to protect against the LTI TruSpeed.

My recommendation would be either to go with the Blinder M25 (or M35), J16 - or, alternatively, the LI (dual), 7.06.

And honestly, given your vehicle, the ZR4 should do well, too. However, given its early weathersealing issues, I'd shy away from this product, at least for the moment-being, until at least it reaches its anniversary date.
Thanks for the advice...always appreciated, man!


vschuel's Sig:VEIL G4
Laser Shield (front/rear)
Laser Interceptor Dual
Beltronics STi-R - build code 3809

LIDAR encounters: 38 (latest 2/5/2011)
LIDAR tickets: 0
RADAR tickets: last - 7/9/2010
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  #13 (permalink)   IP: 129.22.226.41
Old 2008-10-28
TSi+WRX TSi+WRX is offline
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No problem.

Just trying to lay it all out there.

I'm a complete and total independent - no affiliations, no biases, no vesting. Everything gets examined in the same light, in the same context.

I just want to be sure that you go into any decision knowing all the factors. It's not up to me what you buy or what you use - what I can help you with, though, is to reach the final decision that's appropriate for you, by examining all the factors that you find important and based on your personal preferences, so that you are happy.




TSi+WRX's Sig:- Allen/Usual Suspect "DumboRAT"/One of the Three Stooges

LI Rev.2.8, Ver.7.03 - quad 8.0A-f w/ 8.5 Slim-r
LPP v8.3h(CAN/AU)/10.1s, 2xF/1xR
9500i, Red (4307) w/ZR3
VEIL G4
CR8APL8s, w/LaserShield(F)
Cheetah GPS-Mirror

[ Wifey's FXT -> Bue 8500x50 (Rev.5); LI Rev.2.9, Ver.7.08 - dual 8.5 ]

Me: '05 Legacy 2.5GT Ltd., mildly modified
Wifey: '09 Forester XT, barely modded
Baby-Anna: too short to reach any pedals!
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  #14 (permalink)   IP: 69.40.117.139
Old 2008-10-28
steagall1000 steagall1000 is offline
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Default How true this is!

SheltonJ,

Is very correct in his observations of lidar. It is best if you can find someone with a laser gun to test these theories. Rear shots are becoming more and more lately. Color of the vehicle has alot to do with it. Placement is very important as well as leveling your heads. This can effect your performance dramatically.





Quote:
Originally Posted by SheltonJ View Post
The color of your car should make it more difficult than average to get a reading from it. The veil application looks like it will help quite a bit.
You may find it helpful if you can find someone to help you test your vehicle. Looking through the HUD on a LIDAR gun is very educational. You will learn that though effective, the gun doesn't always give a reading right away. The color and shape of the car makes a big difference. You will also learn at what range your car typically becomes vulnerable.
How do they handle things if they find a jammer in Canada?
I agree with the comments above that the proper discipline is to de-activate the jammer as soon as you can.
Are laser detectors legal in Canada? If they aren't, you may need to work on dropping speed quickly without looking like you suddenly stood on the brakes.
Going back to the testing issue, it has been my experience that the quality of the installation and the accuracy of the leveling and aiming of the heads is absolutely paramount. A poorly mounted jammer will barely work, even if it is one of the best models. A perfectly mounted jammer will provide you a reasonable degree of protection even if it isn't one of the types known for JTG performance. What you are looking for is reasonable protection, since in Canada you don't want to JTG if you can help it.
The other thing to consider is the rear of the vehicle. Down here (in Georgia) all LIDAR was being done from the front, but recently they seem to have started to shoot people in the back as they pass. The guns don't seem to care and are happy to operate either way. Most cars are considerably easier to paint from the rear, since they are less aerodynamic from the back. A good jammer can tremendously even things up for you in that area.

Again, if you can arrange it, getting someone with a LIDAR to help you test your setup will provide you with the understanding of how your car interacts with LIDAR and what the guns can and can't do. If possible you should use the kind of LIDAR that is prevalent in your area, since there are differences between guns.

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  #15 (permalink)   IP: 69.40.117.139
Old 2008-10-28
steagall1000 steagall1000 is offline
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Default No creditability

TSi+WRX,

I respect what your are saying, but in the reliability department I believe Veil guy says it best when he said this:



IMO, you left the most important aspect of laser jamming performance: RELIABILITY.

If your laser jammer doesn't last in the field because it is either poorly engineered and/or overdriven then its performance (when it works) really doesn't matter and, in fact, you may be putting yourself at risk (especially if the laser jammer doesn't provide adequate diagnostic feedback during power-up).

I have heard far too may complaints from users of laser diode jammers to risk using them myself and again, IMO, any theoretical performance advantage is largely offset by using an LED-based laser jammer with Veil.

That's why I stick the three majors: Beltronics, Escort, Blinder, because I know they will continue to operate reliably in the field after their install.

The added bonus is these cool operating laser jammers cost a fraction of their more expensive laser-diode counterparts.

There has been only one laser-diode jammer that, I believe, has proven the test of time and that is the Lidatek LE-10. Unfortunately its been out of production for some time...

...

V,

About the ZR4/9500ci, yes that is a very nice feature, indeed, and I believe you are correct, the Blinders do not have the ability (to receive only).

Veil Guy




TSi+WRX

RD.net has really no creditability when it comes to these discussions on jammer reliability. Considering the fact that RD.net is all about the LI and LPP, which have shown horrible reliability over the years. Diodes just can't live up to the overall durability that the Blinder and escort have. Yes the Diodes jam really good, but most customers don't want a unit that after 3-6 months is already having issues. Really when it comes down to it the Blinder and escort are the Honda's of reliability compared to the LI's and LPP's of the Ford reliability. What customers want is a low priced jammer, with good jamming performance and reliability. The LI's and LPP's just don't stack up in the reliability or price category. If you can show me a Diode jammer that has made it 9 years without having any serious issues, and can still jam most of the laser guns today, then I challenge you!! The only jammer I have heard of after 9 years is the old Blinder M-10. The LED technology has proven to be better all around in each department. Price, reliability, and performance!!









Quote:
Originally Posted by TSi+WRX View Post
On the note of durability/reliability -

I do not think that it is fair, at all, to say that any of the laser-diode (CLED) based jammers are far-inferior to their LED-based counterparts (specifically, the Blinder and Escort products), in terms of overall durability/reliability, particularly given the current "state-of-existence" of the comparable LED products.

Although both Blinder and Escort have racked up what can only be said to be the most impressive miles-on-road and years-on-road data, when it comes to overall durability/reliability, neither are perfect, and evidence of this exists aplenty on the "older" community discussion Forums, such as RD.net, and also are logged in the memories of those who have been in this hobby for some time.

The Escort ZR3, for example, saw its first failures nearly a year after the product was initially introduced - and it was through this hard-won experience that Escort's reliability/durability parameters were revamped.

Yet, still, on RD.net, after the initial introduction of the current ZR4, it only took weeks - and in some cases, just days - for several members to have encountered weathersealing problems of not only the forward heads, but also even of the rear.

Obviously, although Escort's had much experience in this matter - but while their previous experience did help guide them, it could not insure that a revamped hardware design would not cause such issues, and it is clear from the experience of those early-adopters that this is well the case.

Even now, we need to remember that the new ZR4 has seen less time-on-road than even the replacement batch of LI heads, claimed as a part of their warranty services (to add to this example, one needs to be reminded that we did not see issues with the LI's initial-US-batch [ver. 8.0 heads] until well after MONTHS of use, in-comparison to the same rash of issues with the ZR4, after only weeks). Furthermore, that the ZR4, in comparison to the current-iteration LPP, now stands well beyond a year, in trailing availability of durability/reliability data.

In terms of the Blinder, much the same, again, can be said about its undeniably impressive durability/reliability record. It is likely the most widespread of the "enthusiast" level LED-based jammers (discounting the Escort and K40, both on the basis that they are oftentimes either marketed as a dealer-add-on at higher-end auto dealers, as well as sometimes "given away" in that same respect), and to the best of my knowledge, few, if any complaints, are ever lodged against the old 0-suffix (M40/30/20) units, in greater autodom, with only occasional claims submitted against them in the speed-detections countermeasures community.

Nevertheless, while such extraordinarily positive data exists for the older Blinder products, claims against the new 5-suffix units (M45/35/25) are not unknown. I was, myself, rather shocked to hear of such issues, but as you can well see from RR.net (ref: Radar Detector Reviews & Radar Detectors Review Forum & Test - View Single Post - CONSUMER ALERT!! Laser Star officially sucks balls ), this is not something that can be ignored, again, particularly of such a "new" unit.

Currently - speaking solely of jammers that are bought NEW, retail - the LPP has been on-road the longest, and truly maintains the best durability/reliability record.

The new ZR4 trails both the 5-suffix (M45/35/25) Blinders (and to this, I should add, that there's even less known of the J16s, due to their even younger age and the fact that the critical jamming LEDs have been updated) as well as the Laser Interceptor by a wide margin, when it comes to their time-on-road and miles-on-road.

Yes, past history should be examined, when we're talking about durability and reliability, but a more accurate of the PRESENT circumstances should also be dissected, in-detail.

----

That all-said.....

Please do not read my statements above, regarding durability/reliability, as some kind of "push" for you to go that way, vschuel.

I was only examining that particular issue (durability/reliability), in the above presentation.

Currently, I do *NOT* see the current-generation LPP as a viable jammer - particularly in your area and proposed areas of travel - due to the inability of this unit to protect against the LTI TruSpeed.

My recommendation would be either to go with the Blinder M25 (or M35), J16 - or, alternatively, the LI (dual), 7.06.

And honestly, given your vehicle, the ZR4 should do well, too. However, given its early weathersealing issues, I'd shy away from this product, at least for the moment-being, until at least it reaches its anniversary date.

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