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  #106 (permalink)   IP: 192.168.2.1
Old 2009-07-13
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Veil Guy Veil Guy is offline
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Allen,

I would like to think that this forum is pro (any good countermeasure that is legitimately available here in this market), to that list, I would add Beltronics, Valentine, Ontrack, Cheetah, Cobra (primarily for laser and photo-enforcement).

I stood up for Blinder ad an Admin on rd.net because I felt that they were being the target of a mis-information campaign. More than a year later, it appears that I was 100% correct. But, has any one ever thought to extend and apology for their mean-spirited ways towards myself during the ugly ugly period? Let's just say, I won't hold my breath. With the internet it's much easier to be a bully/coward for some, unfortunately.

I honestly don't get this perception that you are indicating (although I don't doubt its veracity).

Veil Guy


Veil Guy's Sig:

Protect yourself from speeding tickets[/b] with the VEIL stealth coating.

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  #107 (permalink)   IP: 67.141.139.77
Old 2009-07-14
steagall1000 steagall1000 is offline
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TSi+WRX,

Your Quote::
{And let's not forget steagall1000's improper use of the Blinder Mx7 video, which was censured by appropriate parties on EVERY legitimate countermeasures hobbyist Forum as being "shill"-worthy}

Let me clear something up for you TSi+WRX. That video came from jason AKA "Outruns" youtube video off his website. I was told by him that those were the new video test of the Blinder M27/M47.

Needless to say I called leon up just to find out that jason was not suppose to post those videos. First off they were videos of the Blinder M25/M45 J17's. Jason "titled" them Blinder M27 on his youtube video. It was only after I posted the video that I found out that those videos should have never been put up... So I deleted them off speedtraphunter.net..

You assumed that I made the video and screwed up everything. As usual you were wrong. Leon was not mad at me, he was mad and upset that Outrun even put those up. So I will clear this up for you. There has never been any video footage of the new Blinder M27/M47's. No one has video of them because they have not even been released. I would appreciate if you would stop bringing my name into your conversations with other forum members. Respect me and you will get respect back. Please leave my name out of your conversations!!

Thank You



Quote:
Originally Posted by TSi+WRX View Post
^ There's plenty of debate on RadarDetector.net as well as other communities as to the extent of VEIL's benefit, particularly given a jammer that works well. While I don't agree with those views, I do see their merit, both in terms of academic debate, as well as what's been tested (evidence counter to the claims that VEIL works is also plenty to be had).



No, I'm definitely talking about this Forum being pro-Blinder, pro-Escort, pro-VEIL.

There have been those who have been here, who have not agreed with such views, who have chosen not to come back.

In light of what Bob/VEIL Guy/[b]SpeedTrapHunter has chosen as the Mission Statement of this Forum, I will respect those rules and not debate this argument, for it will simply drag-in people who choose to no longer be here, and will perpetuate much negativity.



Personal preference/bias, to me, it's all the same - it's something that's simply not objective.

One can sort out the differences between what should not be taken into account, when critically reading through *any* Forum, and yet still retain enough presence-of-mind to know and understand what any potential data set would suggest.

To me, it is worth it to sift through the detritus, in order to gain a fuller understanding of all the facts in-play.



^ I completely agree with this, and find it both well-considered and well-said.

To me, there are no stupid questions, and also, to me, it is important that *every* possibility be pursued fairly and equally.

The pervasive atmosphere there is not conducive to such, unfortunately.

RE: RadarDetector.net being a valuable resource:


Really?

Where else is one to find a gathering of many enthusiasts, many of whom, in-turn, gather for independent, hobbyist-level based testing?

Where else is data from such testing published?

Where else is the background of what happened with AntiLaser, Laser Pro Park, LaserStar, and Drive Smart logged?

Where else is there the same level of documented background on the various iterations of today's countermeasures arsenal, including not only LIDAR jammers, but RADAR detectors?

RE: my comment on "outright refusal any information therein [of RD.net] would be to miss much of the historical facts and context" -


Your own reply confirms my statement as true and valid.

No, one does not need to be a member of the RD.net Forums. I've stated that very clearly:



But you yourself cited that even if one only linked to the pertinent RD.net threads/posts, it would be a "win-win."

And it is VITAL to learn the history.

Without the history, we would not properly understand why it is that so many members constantly cry "wait until the production variant comes out, before getting hyped-up about a product."

The reasons for this is clearly demonstrated in the history, of Blinder's prototypes tested by the GOL, in their respective "early days," which were then found to not perform up-to-par, and also again with both AntiLaser products and, once more (although performance was not an issue, the actual physical packaging of the product was), with Laser Interceptor.

Without knowing the history of Neil Brown and DriveSmart, as well as the history of The Goons, one would easily have succumb to the LaserStar's rather well-conceived marketing tactics - and many did just that.
It is only through the proper historical context that one is able to understand why many of us asked for caution.

Without knowing the history, newbies would not properly understand the importance of passive countermeasures such as VEIL in enhancing a vehicle's overall LIDAR profile - why the Stalker LZ1 is so capable of exploiting a "weaker" jammer's defenses, which is so nicely handled by VEIL. Similarly, one would not understand the importance of VEIL and other point-countermeasure passive defenses when it came to devices like the TruSpeed.

Without the proper historical perspective, we cannot hope to understand, fully, what makes for good CURRENT defenses.



^ I agree, but this Forum, currently, is very, very small.

I can literally count, on one hand, the number of active participants.

With greater population of users comes a higher - and more difficult to maintain - noise floor. It's simply an effect of "the least common denominator," and I've seen it happen virtually *everywhere* that there's a user-population increase.

No, a Forum doesn't have to be like that, the Admin/Moderators could exercise a tighter reign, as VEIL Guy/STH has, here.

But in terms of using a resource that is already corrupt?

All that one can do is to sort through the trash for the gems, and my, are there true gems.

RE: "pre-release" items tested -


The GOL doesn't sell any products.

Similarly, RadarBusters was never stocked with LIs.

That Blinder has allowed an early-peek of the Mx7 is just the same - only that this ability was given to a different group of hobbyists (BTW, I seriously doubt that the GOL will *EVER* test a pre-production unit, ever again - they've been burned by this way too many times in their past).

And let's not forget steagall1000's improper use of the Blinder Mx7 video, which was censured by appropriate parties on EVERY legitimate countermeasures hobbyist Forum as being "shill"-worthy.

Testing of a pre-production product is simply testing of a pre-production product.

I don't see any wrong in it, as long as that fact is made known to all involved - which WAS the case with the LI/GOL, and which is also the case with the Blinder Mx7.

Besides, if you're so focused on CURRENT history, why even bother bringing up the old issue of the pre-production LI and GOL 2007 - which is now two years past?

Why don't we focus on the CURRENT history of the LI, as-tested by not only the GOL (who, given the presence of LI representatives at the 2008 testing, I do feel that fact needs to be noted), but also CFL, NE-regional, MI, TX, GA, and NJ groups, as well as many other independent hobbyists?

RE: group/individual testing -


Agreed.

Luckily, though, more and more of these groups are popping up.

RE: LIDAR tester -


So here's what I don't get....

You say you don't want to go to RD.net -

Yet you keep bringing up old issues that were explained on RD.net to rehash?

You claim no knowledge of many past issues, yet, the more you write above, the more it is clear that you *DO* have specific knowledge of past concerns....

And now you hint at a development on RD.net that will happen in the future? and furthermore, by downplaying my stating that you're not on the other Forum, seems to suggest that you *are* on the other Forum....

Why, exactly, are you playing both hands here?

Who are you, exactly? Bob/VEIL Guy/SpeedTrapHunter has cited that you are involved in the industry:

Northeast Laser Jammer test results for June '09

Why not come out and tell us who you are, and EXACTLY what your knowledge-base happens to be, and where your personal inclinations lie, instead of playing us like fools?

RE: new methods of testing -


That "dumb" was a tongue-in-cheek comment. Everyone who has read any of my past posts know how highly I think of my fellow hobbyists and enthusiasts.

Just because we haven't come up with it, yet, doesn't mean that we won't, ever - or even come upon it accidentally.

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  #108 (permalink)   IP: 67.141.139.77
Old 2009-07-14
steagall1000 steagall1000 is offline
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TSi+WRX,

Your quote below says everyone who knows your post know how highly you think of your fellow hobbyist. I'm sorry to say in my opinion that is so "not true." Maybe your buddies over at rd.net do, but I know I have lost total respect for you because, you feed to fellow members what they want to hear and then turn around and talk behind their backs.

When I was over at RD.net alot of members over there did not want me to leave. There are members over there that don't feed into alot of the crap/bashing that I feel "you" and others have done in the past over at rd.net. For example Veil Guy, and Blinder Dude etc.

I have respect for them because they don't jump into a forum to start a bashing of products contest. They explain their products,and answer questions for new members. RD.net has become such a bais forum and there are members over there that are just flat out rude and nasty.. They even ran off the man himself, "mike Valentine". RD.NET could only hope to be as professional of a forum as speedtraphunter.net is. I think Veil Guy along with others who are part of this forum have contributed so much to help others. This is something you will never see at RD.net!!!



Quote from TSi+WRX:

Everyone who has read any of my past posts know how highly I think of my fellow hobbyists and enthusiasts.
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  #109 (permalink)   IP: 4.159.74.217
Old 2009-07-14
Stealth Enthusiast Stealth Enthusiast is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TSi+WRX View Post
Personal preference/bias, to me, it's all the same
They may be the same to you, but they do in-fact have two different definitions.

FACT - preference
ē noun: a greater liking for one alternative over another or others. link

FACT - bias
ē noun: inclination or prejudice in favour of a particular person, thing, or viewpoint. link

A preference can be obtained by objective means. A bias cannot

Quote:
it's something that's simply not objective.
See above.

Quote:
One can sort out the differences between what should not be taken into account, when critically reading through *any* Forum
No, not always. It all depends on the level of rhetoric and propaganda that is used, and of course, the amount of common sense that the reader has. The point isnít *can* it be sorted out - the point is that it shouldn't have to be sorted out in the first place. This is all determined by the Admin/Moderators of any forum, and ultimately the Admin of any forum sets the tone.

Quote:
To me, it is worth it to sift through the detritus, in order to gain a fuller understanding of all the facts in-play.
Perhaps you have a higher tolerance. For a lot of people it simply is not worth it. My point wasnít so much about if someone decides to sort through it or not, my concern is that the detritus (or in the case of rd.net, the amount of detritus) shouldnít be allowed to be there in the first place.

Quote:
I completely agree with this, and find it both well-considered and well-said.
Thank you for the kind compliment

Quote:
it is important that *every* possibility be pursued fairly and equally.
Yes, absolutely. Equal footing.

Quote:
The pervasive atmosphere there is not conducive to such, unfortunately.
Yes it is unfortunate, and very sad, but that is the type of atmosphere that they want, so theyíve earned their reputation accordingly.

Quote:
Where else is one to find a gathering of many enthusiasts, many of whom, in-turn, gather for independent, hobbyist-level based testing? Where else is data from such testing published? Where else is the background of what happened with AntiLaser, Laser Pro Park, LaserStar, and Drive Smart logged?
I have used google to find many of these things, and that ďother forumĒ is not always where the information was located. Itís a house of mirrors there and you canít always tell what youíre looking at. Surprisingly a lot of (especially jammer) information more and more pops up on car enthusiast forums, for example Mustang, Corvette and BMW.

Quote:
Your own reply confirms my statement as true and valid.
Yes but only partially and only in sparatic situations.

Quote:
No, one does not need to be a member of the RD.net Forums.
Exactly. Iíd be willing to bet that they have less active members today than in their hay-day. Iím also willing to bet that each day additional people get sick of all their tripe and look for other forums/sources such as this one where people can actually learn countermeasures without all of the rhetoric. Just a few days ago another new member here thanked the owners for making this forum available. Iím guessing he wonít be the last

Quote:
But you yourself cited that even if one only linked to the pertinent RD.net threads/posts, it would be a "win-win."
Yes and I did so to prove that people have no reason to feel Ďleft outí of the countermeasures community just because they are not there. Life is too short and Iím not willing to put up with or deal with all of the negative energy that is so pervasive there.

How many newbies over the years have fallen through the cracks and left the countermeasures community as a whole, or bought a poorly designed product just because they may have thought that all countermeasure forums would have the same disappointing atmosphere as rd.net? How many newbies that stay there pick up bad habits? There is only one reason why someone would buy a junky radar detector and *think* that it was good, and that is lack of education on the subject. Any and all countermeasures forums have the responsibility IMO to have a welcoming, nurturing, and learning atmosphere. It hurts this entire community when they do not. Donít you ever wonder how many people over the years may have bought a poorly designed radar detector, received a ticket using it, and then thought that ALL radar detectors were basically just as crappy, and so they stopped caring about them. These people need to see more positive energy in the countermeasures community. All of the bickering, nit picking, shilling and pettiness needs to be put to rest. You donít do that by supporting forums that foster and promote such things.

Quote:
And it is VITAL to learn the history
Sometimes, but not always. It all depends on *why* a person joins a forum in the first place. If someone just wants to see how others like a certain product, then they really donít need to know the history of the jammer industry. If someone just wants to learn how to best install jammer heads, they wouldn't need to know the entire history of jammer heads. If someone just wants to know what the latest products on the market are, then likewise they also wouldn't need to know the entire history of countermeasures products. History is important, Iíll grant you that, but only to a certain point and only for certain members.

Quote:
Without knowing the history, newbies would not properly understand the importance of passive countermeasures such as VEIL in enhancing a vehicle's overall LIDAR profile
Yes history *could* help with this BUT it is NOT the only way for a person to learn that passive countermeasures are important.

Quote:
Without the proper historical perspective, we cannot hope to understand, fully, what makes for good CURRENT defenses.
Silly me, and here I thought that each products test results were dependent purely on each products test performance - without any bias

Quote:
I agree, but this Forum, currently, is very, very small.
Size of a forum is not important to me. Accurate, unbiased information is, and I could get that if only one honest, unbiased person is here. By your own admission there is at least five times that amount

Quote:
With greater population of users comes a higher - and more difficult to maintain - noise floor.
No, this is absolutely NOT true!

A greater population only increases the *potential* for more problems, it does NOT guarantee them. I have been a admin/moderator for some of the biggest forums on the net, and personally know many other admins/moderators for many other very large forums and one element has always remained consistent and true, that the tone of the forum is always set by the people that run it, not the members. There is no secret to running a good forum, you just first have to have it in your heart to *want* to have a welcoming, nurturing forum. IMO rd.net has other priorities.

Quote:
You claim no knowledge of many past issues, yet, the more you write above, the more it is clear that you *DO* have specific knowledge of past concerns
I have no desire to become a countermeasures historian That does not mean that I do not have some knowledge of past events. Google still works plenty good for researching such matters.

Quote:
now you hint at a development on RD.net that will happen in the future?
I donít know how my statement could have been misunderstood by you. The word Ďwonítí was clearly used twice

Quote:
Just because we haven't come up with it, yet, doesn't mean that we won't, ever - or even come upon it accidentally.
Exactly. I am confident that the community will evolve and become better in every way thatís good
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  #110 (permalink)   IP: 41.208.50.193
Old 2009-07-14
Streaker Streaker is offline
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Please excuse me having my say in this thread, but it is where my thoughts are: How does a thread about a 'company' going bang turn into a patent war and then a slug fest that would make Rocky Balboa proud? I sit on the fence here, as I have never met any of you and you have all helped me (both sides) by putting up with my questions and expanding my knowledge more in the last few days then I could find out in the last few years! Guys, my hobby for jamming old smokie has kept me from becoming some guys girlfriend (read as going to jail) and has saved me thousands of 'dollars'. Just this morning I was saved a few by my jammer. i joined this forum because I believed I could learn, if I want to see a slug fest I will go hire all the Rocky films!!! We all have the same hobby, lets work together to improve it.......As a thought, maybe if Germany joined all its jet technology together they might of won the war, but they divided it between six companies who had to experiment and have the same mishaps before learning the same things! I know not a good example, but hey, prove it wrong!
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