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  #96 (permalink)   IP: 4.159.74.94
Old 2009-07-09
Stealth Enthusiast Stealth Enthusiast is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TSi+WRX View Post
If you're not giving AL the benefit of doubt in terms of patents, then the LaserStar has already struck-out, for it is simply "cloned" from the AL G8.
Yes, I agree

Quote:
And as for Neil Brown, I'm surprised that your searches only revealed my posts
I was surprised too, but facts are facts

From what I can gather from googling, he was only interested in making a fast buck at the expense of others. I donít know if itís true or just a well orchestrated campaign to smear the guy, but if it is true then the community doesnít need him. We need people and products that we can trust, and from what Iíve seen it always boils down to companies like Bel/Escort, Blinder and Veil. These are the companies that I feel comfortable supporting

Quote:
The problem with your not trusting RadarDetector.net posts is that much of the past history occurred there.
I can take that more than one way

Quote:
Yes, there's bias over on RD.net, as there is bias in *any* and *every* on-line community.
Well there is bias, and then there is BIAS. On rd.net there is BIAS

Mix that with over inflated egos, arrogance, occasional immaturity and a dash of self-righteousness and you have an environment over there that IMO is not good for learning. I think a lot of people, especially newbies, go to these forums to learn about how to best use countermeasures. You can't do that with the environment that they have over there. For one thing, you're wasting half of your time there wading through all the unnecessary nonsense and crap. Theyíre a pro-LI, pro-GOL forum, and if you say anything about anything else then you'd better be wearing a raincoat I don't go to a forum (any forum) to waste my time having to deal with rudeness and narrow-mindedness. I go to a forum to either learn a topic, or to help others to learn. If a forums environment is so corrupt that I can't help others, or that Iím not given a level opportunity where I can learn the topic in a unbiased manner, then it's a waste of my time to even go there.

They love you there if you agree with everything that they say, but disagree with them about anything, or even worse, prove to them that they are in-fact wrong about something, and they will put a bullseye on you and gang up on you. Many of the times the moderators themselves join in, and thatís simply inexcusable. This shows me that the environment over there is not open. People donít debate topics over there, instead they bash, argue and throw tantrums over there. Sorry but thatís not what I look for in a forum, especially a forum that is supposed to conduct itself in a mature and professional manner on behalf of the countermeasures community. As far as Iím concerned, and I know others will privately agree with me, they are a black-eye to the countermeasures community Just because theyíre big doesnít make them good. Not too long ago the Blinder rep posted a simple thread about the new Blinder that was going to be introduced, and they all jumped on him like white on rice. I found it inexcusable for those members to treat him like that, especially when he didnít do ANYTHING wrong. Need another example? Look at how they treated the Veil Guy so badly over there. This is rd.netís pattern, itís in their biology, their history, their modus operandi, and I simply have no use or time to waste over there. What someone else does with their time is their business. I take the countermeasure topic very seriously, and I have no time for that sites piffle. Sadly, I see no indication that it will ever change

Quote:
It was clear that this video was fabricated
Yes, I know of several videos that were fabricated. That's why I don't trust videos. I heard of one where black shoe polish was put on the jammer head so that it would fail. I believe they also used a Chrysler 300 for the car, which is a very hard car for any jammer to work with because of the size/shape of the car. This is why I wish there was some sort of standards set by the community for how testing was performed. It should be apples to apples comparisons, I mean everyone is after all, trying to compare one product with another arenít we? Isnít that the whole purpose of a comparison? I believe that like any technology, a sorted few have misused the video technology to make either their bad product look good, or a good (competitors) product look bad. Using video per se isn't the problem. How it's used is.


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  #97 (permalink)   IP: 76.190.193.28
Old 2009-07-09
TSi+WRX TSi+WRX is offline
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RE: posts about Neil Brown -
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stealth Enthusiast View Post
I was surprised too, but facts are facts
Interesting - I don't know how search pages "rate" posts/threads/information...perhaps this is truly as simple as the fact that someone had gone through and eliminated most/all of the past post that are more "incriminating?"

Dunno.

Quote:
From what I can gather from googling, he was only interested in making a fast buck at the expense of others. I donít know if itís true or just a well orchestrated campaign to smear the guy, but if it is true then the community doesnít need him.
It would have to be a very, very, very well-orchestrated attempt - for the negativity spans across the globe, from Europe to the US to Australia/Asia.

It definitely brings together *everyone*, no matter what product each of those specific people may be biased towards, or against.

That's why I said what I said before - about taking into account the whole, and how that affects the noise-floor.

Quote:
Well there is bias, and then there is BIAS. On rd.net there is BIAS

Mix that with over inflated egos, arrogance, occasional immaturity and a dash of self-righteousness and you have an environment over there that IMO is not good for learning. I think a lot of people, especially newbies, go to these forums to learn about how to best use countermeasures. You can't do that with the environment that they have over there. For one thing, you're wasting half of your time there wading through all the unnecessary nonsense and crap. Theyíre a pro-LI, pro-GOL forum, and if you say anything about anything else then you'd better be wearing a raincoat I don't go to a forum (any forum) to waste my time having to deal with rudeness and narrow-mindedness. I go to a forum to either learn a topic, or to help others to learn. If a forums environment is so corrupt that I can't help others, or that Iím not given a level opportunity where I can learn the topic in a unbiased manner, then it's a waste of my time to even go there.

They love you there if you agree with everything that they say, but disagree with them about anything, or even worse, prove to them that they are in-fact wrong about something, and they will put a bullseye on you and gang up on you. Many of the times the moderators themselves join in, and thatís simply inexcusable. This shows me that the environment over there is not open. People donít debate topics over there, instead they bash, argue and throw tantrums over there. Sorry but thatís not what I look for in a forum, especially a forum that is supposed to conduct itself in a mature and professional manner on behalf of the countermeasures community. As far as Iím concerned, and I know others will privately agree with me, they are a black-eye to the countermeasures community Just because theyíre big doesnít make them good. Not too long ago the Blinder rep posted a simple thread about the new Blinder that was going to be introduced, and they all jumped on him like white on rice. I found it inexcusable for those members to treat him like that, especially when he didnít do ANYTHING wrong. Need another example? Look at how they treated the Veil Guy so badly over there. This is rd.netís pattern, itís in their biology, their history, their modus operandi, and I simply have no use or time to waste over there. What someone else does with their time is their business. I take the countermeasure topic very seriously, and I have no time for that sites piffle. Sadly, I see no indication that it will ever change
Although yes, I do agree with some of the specifics of your post, I don't think that it is a problem that belongs solely to RadarDetector.net .

This kind of "groupthink" seems to be more commonplace than not, in most Internet-based communities.

I do agree, RD.net is a biased community, but I know of only a few which are not, and what's more, I do not think that one should exclude any such community as a resource, if only specifically for the role of background research, and not active participation.

I've been in science all my life, and as such, was a part of the start of what eventually became known as the "Internet," and I've had my share of participating in larger online communities. In many such communities, this kind of mob-esque behavior eventually sets in - but despite such, they can still continue to be good, and even excellent, resources of detailed background, historical, and even ongoing technical information.

Take RadarDetector.net, for example.

Where else will you find such a large pool of individual and group-organized hobbyists and enthusiasts?

Absolutely nowhere.

And in all honesty, although decidedly pro-GOL, the population there can also said to simply be pro-independent-testing, in-general, which was the type of ethos that the GOL embodied at an early time, and which also saw the GOL, literally, laying the seeds for, both with its group actions, as well as the voice of their own members. I can't even count how many times has either current members or past members of that group raised the battle cry of "get out there and test these products, yourself, to see what they're REALLY capable of!"

And yes, I know that the overall Forum there is decidedly pro-LI - but given the many independent hobbyist tests which, under the most rigorous of circumstances, demonstrates the excellent performance of that device....well, that reason is not hard to see. Additionally, it does well to remember that the LI's tenure there has not been one that was totally smooth and without its own trials and tribulations: everything from the initial problem where the GOL tested a pre-release variant to early quality-control problems to the the battles fought against The Goons in their "smear campaign" promotion of the LaserStar - in my book, every one of those battle scars made the LI's reputation what it is today, and to that extent, RadarDetector.net and its inhabitants (myself included) have not been kind, and have often been the ones to demand and insist upon solid answers.

Blinder and Escort both literally dug their own graves there, given the performance cross-comparisons as well as secondary issues (the mis-representation of the Blinder product by a certain all too well-known member [not mhardy] with vested ties, who was censured by BlinderDude, no less, for his trespasses, and the lack of active participation by Escort, until just recently) - and it has yet to be seen if their efforts to regain the favor of the community will succeed.

RE: fabrication of "testing" videos -
Quote:
Yes, I know of several videos that were fabricated. That's why I don't trust videos.
In the one I spoke of above, the fabrication was not the circumstances of the video, but rather, how the products used - that specific member's countermeasures - was literall mis-cited/mis-quoted, albeit deliberately, in an outright attempt to deceive potential buyers.

Quote:
I heard of one where black shoe polish was put on the jammer head so that it would fail. I believe they also used a Chrysler 300 for the car, which is a very hard car for any jammer to work with because of the size/shape of the car. This is why I wish there was some sort of standards set by the community for how testing was performed. It should be apples to apples comparisons, I mean everyone is after all, trying to compare one product with another arenít we? Isnít that the whole purpose of a comparison? I believe that like any technology, a sorted few have misused the video technology to make either their bad product look good, or a good (competitors) product look bad. Using video per se isn't the problem. How it's used is.
^ Exactly.

Whose words are we supposed to believe? How can we potentially discount one but not another?

The take-home is that in this dirty industry - and sadly, oftentimes "tainted" hobby - we're left to trust no-one.

Simply view everything with a bit of healthy doubt, a bit of healthy skepticism, and let your own logic and good sense be your guide.

Of the people who ask me for advice, I will plain tell them what I think, but in ending, I also always tell them to do their own homework, and more specifically, to try to prove me wrong.




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  #98 (permalink)   IP: 4.159.74.213
Old 2009-07-10
Stealth Enthusiast Stealth Enthusiast is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TSi+WRX View Post
Although yes, I do agree with some of the specifics of your post, I don't think that it is a problem that belongs solely to RadarDetector.net .
No not solely, but they are certainly one of the worst. That's all I'm trying to say. There is a night and day difference between the atmosphere there, and the atmosphere here. I think that's important to note

Quote:
This kind of "groupthink" seems to be more commonplace than not, in most Internet-based communities.
I am very well familiar with how forum communities work. I used to write forum software and am a member of one of the largest admin communities on the net. Being seasoned in Internet-based communities I know that any forums atmosphere is developed and nourished starting at the top. Without getting into specifics all I can say is the admins/mods over at rd.net are unprofessional. They have banned some VERY good community members, and chased all their good admins/mods away. What does that leave them with? I fully understand that all forums can have 'clicks' but I am not interesting in all forums, I am just interested in being in the best countermeasures community, because that is the topic that I am trying to learn.

Quote:
I do not think that one should exclude any such community as a resource
Isn't that kind of like saying that a person can't be a good Christian unless they learn witchcraft? I hope you don't believe that. It is not a prerequisite to be a member of rd.net to learn about countermeasures. You said yourself that they are a biased community, so that would also make them inherently a biased resource. Sorry but I am not comfortable learning from a biased resource, because in the end I cannot trust a biased resource. When and if (key word - if) they ever become a more nurturing and objective forum, then I will go there and support them, until then I will not.

Quote:
Where else will you find such a large pool of individual and group-organized hobbyists and enthusiasts?
I guess it's all in what you are looking for. Personally I am not looking for 'large' - I am looking for helpful, nurturing, and a pleasant atmosphere. Now if you try and tell me that those qualities are over at rd.net, then I can guarantee you that I will fall out of my chair laughing

Quote:
And yes, I know that the overall Forum there is decidedly pro-LI - but given the many independent hobbyist tests which, under the most rigorous of circumstances, demonstrates the excellent performance of that device....well, that reason is not hard to see.
I have a LI quad. I can honestly say that I don't know how well it performs. As long as there are members who rave about the LI (whether it is true of not) then I have made a safe investment. I have also heard that the LI that GOL used in their tests is not the same design that they sell everyone else. I don't know if that is true or not but the fact that LI is usually present whenever GOL performs their tests, well should you really be surprised that LI is always 'rated' number one? What I do know is that there is some truth to the old saying about "If enough people repeat a lie often enough, other people will believe it". I would like to test my LI quad one day and see just how good or bad it really is. Regardless of how it turns out, that is the only test that I will believe.

Quote:
Whose words are we supposed to believe? How can we potentially discount one but not another?
You say that you're a scientist. Am I fair to conclude that you use electronic testing equipment and math to determine facts in your field? If so then here is a hypothetical question for you; what if there was a device that attached to the front of a jammer head, that could tell you precisely how well it truly was performing? Now what if this device was easily available in the community, very affordable and people all around the world could use it to test their own jammers? Those group numbers not only could tell you which jammer actually performed the best, but also help with quality control issues correct? When someone tells me that the way things are now is the way they have to be, I kindly disagree. I think there's a much better way to do things, the community just hasn't found it yet


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  #99 (permalink)   IP: 71.225.25.104
Old 2009-07-10
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Speed Trap Hunter Speed Trap Hunter is offline
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Guys,

He are some of the legal commentary concerning the patenting process from one of the leading multi-national IP firms.

FACT: Patent application numbers are private until they are published.

FACT: One can always reveal them of their own free will if one wishes, but the idea is that up until something is published, the patentee has the right to abandon without making something public record.

FACT: If one doesn't want others to find a way to dig up one's abandoned applications, keeping the application number to oneself is one way to do that.

FACT: The patent application number is confidential information until published - as is the existence of the patent application itself.

FACT: It's okay to say "patent pending" if something is pending as an advertisement, but it is wholly optional and not required.

FACT:
One should not say it if it is not true, but one doesn't have to say if it is true. So, one can keep one's application private until it is published.

FACT: There are some exceptions to making pending applications public sooner or under different access circumstances (involving related applications and incorporation of a pending application by reference for information in a published application), but by and large - the rule is you file, and at 18 months it's published (including the publication and application numbers). Up until the 18 months, they are one's private information.

LEGAL OPINION:

"I usually counsel people to keep the application and number private until publication, just in case they want to abandon, but that's up to the applicant whether to publish the application number prior to PTO publication.

The one true exception, is that in the US you can still file and request "Non-publication," in which case the patent application is not available unless and until the patent issues, but you can ONLY do this if you do not partake in foreign filing of any kind (including PCT) in a country that also publishes (which is pretty much all of them). So if you only want a US patent, you can ask not to publish."


===

Based upon this feedback, I would prefer that further discussion on this particular aspect of any company's IP (filed or assigned) be no longer discussed on this forum (or on any other forum, for that matter) as it will be in the best interest of all parties involved.

Discussions of the other related issues are fine, but please respect my request to cease discussing/speculating about the IP of any given company in a public forum.

As Happya$$ already indicated, this IS a matter for the attorneys to sort out, not for forum members.

STH


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  #100 (permalink)   IP: 71.225.25.104
Old 2009-07-10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Speed Trap Hunter View Post
As Happya$$ already indicated, this IS a matter for the attorneys to sort out, not for forum members.
X2!

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