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Blinder Discussion of Blinder X-treme series of laser jammers and related accessories.

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  #16 (permalink)   IP: 70.218.209.168
Old 2009-03-07
jaminc jaminc is offline
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Default Honda Install Question

I have a 2004 Honda Accord Sedan, Silver and live in South Louisiana.

Thanks for the reply.
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  #17 (permalink)   IP: 192.251.125.85
Old 2009-03-07
steagall1000 steagall1000 is offline
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Default Good Choice!

Jaminic,

To answer your question on individual heads, yes they can be purchased. A Blinder M35 on a 2004 accord with Veil is a deadly combination. I jammed the Truspeed all the way with just my old 3 head J11's. So if your going to do a 3 head Blinder system with the new J16's, you will have no problems. The Laser Veil G4 adds a nice touch too.




Quote:
Originally Posted by jaminc View Post
I appreciate the replys. Looks like I am headed down the path of my first Blinder purchase. Just for the record, my car color is silver. Not ideal but she is mine.
Do you guys know what distance most LEO try to clock via laser?
Thanks again.

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  #18 (permalink)   IP: 76.190.193.28
Old 2009-03-07
TSi+WRX TSi+WRX is offline
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^ I think the trick with the TruSpeed is that it's easy to jam - but very hard to detect.

The fact that just your three-head (M35), J11 revision, setup is capable of JTG'ing the TruSpeed is a very good indication of this.

Similarly, it has now been confirmed by the RD.net member Just1n that even the defunct Escort ZR3 does very well against the TruSpeed - and it should be reiterated yet again that the ZR3's strength is indeed not in terms of its jamming capabilities, but rather, is very much related to its *excellent* receptive capabilities, which rivals and surpassed many of its contemporary rivals, such as the AntiLaser G7 and G8, as well as the LPP.

As-such, I do not believe that performance against the TruSpeed should be the sole consideration.

[ Also, the presence of VEIL G4 adds another confounding factor to the issue. Although it is my core belief that VEIL G4 *should* be a vital and indispensable component of any complete countermeasure setup, it has now been seen in more than one set of tests that G4 literally "eats TruSpeed for lunch" (and my suspicion is that the particular characteristics of the TruSpeed's LIDAR signature is why this is so, akin to the same effect that is [and was, with the G2 variant of VEIL] seen with the Stalker LZ-1). Thus, using a VEIL-incorporated example may overstate the performance of the jammer, and despite the fact that I do believe that jaminc would be well served in utilizing VEIL G4 on his vehicle - and that I would sincerely recommend that he do so, particularly given the specific hardpoints of the 6th generation Accord (more below) - I also think that in discussion focusing on the jammer's specific performance, this factor should be excluded. ]

Please, read-on for my reasoning:


Quote:
Originally Posted by jaminc View Post
I have a 2004 Honda Accord Sedan, Silver and live in South Louisiana.
MEGA MAXXXX for Blinder Installs

^ In which steagall wrote the following:
Quote:
Originally Posted by steagall1000 View Post
....They did the install on my 2005 Honda accord sedan.
This can be verified in a number of other posts where steagall was the author, and cited his Honda Accord sedan's MY, including, but not limited to:

MEGA MAXXXX for Blinder Installs
^
Quote:
Originally Posted by steagall1000 View Post
Anyone wanting to know a good installer in the atlanta area for blinder laser jammers, I recommend MeggaMaxx over in marietta next to the BIG Chicken off cobb parkway. They did the install on my 2005 white honda accord. Their Installers do a really good job and they have a life time warranty on the install itself....
K1200S new Blinder install
^
Quote:
Originally Posted by steagall1000 View Post
...I have a 2005 honda accord....
steagall's full-vehicle setup is a M75 - a seven-head unit.

Two heads are devoted to the rear, thus leaving five (5) for the front.

The 5 front heads are, if I remember correctly (and I hope that steagall will cross-verify), set up as a pair of M25 (two heads), J15 revision, up top, in the grill flanking the Honda badge, with a trio of M35 (three heads) J11 revision, below, in the main radiator opening under the bumper beam.

This is a picture of his setup, taken by MEM-TEK, as-present at the "Atlanta Jammer Fest" in 2008:

http://mem-tek.com/radar/Atlanta_jam...5_1000x740.jpg

In the latter half of this thread:

Escort Passport Shifter ZR4 Review ľ Speed of Light Protection

We have input from steagall as-follows:

Post #19, page 4 -
Quote:
Originally Posted by steagall1000 View Post
...Like for example my lower bumper. My heads are too far away to cover the lower corner of my honda bumper. So if a officer targeted just right within 500 feet, I'm toast.
Post #21, page 5 -
Quote:
Originally Posted by steagall1000 View Post
I agree with you on your answer to this problem. Whether its a 4 head blinder or two head it doesn't matter. The officer can still get punch-through on my lower bumper. I know this because I got a speeding ticket over 5 months ago when a officer shot at me from a angle shot at 400 feet. My blinder M35 didn't even go off. Here is a pic of my car. look directly under my head lights and where the bumper curves, is where he got me. I know this because I went back to the site where the officer sat and had my friend drive my car towards me. I tried different shots at the front and head lights and the ultralyte set the blinder off and jammed. But the minute I targeted just under the head light where the bumper starts to curve, the blinder never alerted and I got instant punch-through.
And subsequent that post, starting with post #22, myself, VEIL Guy, and steagall begin to get into the nitty-gritty of how to potentially get his setup to perform better.

Now, why did I just go through all that digging/history?

Because, a page earlier, steagall offered you this advice:

Quote:
Originally Posted by steagall1000 View Post
Jaminc,

First off welcome to the forum Yes a Blinder M25 and Laser Veil G4 for the head lights will give you JTG performance on a 04 accord. Since 95% of police shoot the front of cars versus the rear.
Now, since I'm not intimately familiar with the Honda Accord line, I've had to do a little research:

Honda Accord - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It seems that, for the seventh-generation Accord, the 2003-2004 models were identical, and that in 2005, some minor exterior trim cosmetics as well as interior safety-equipment changes were made - but that overall vehicle "skin" remained the same, and was not refreshed until the 2006 model-year, which then carried the vehicle into 2007, and the subsequent transition in 2008 to the eighth (current) generation model.

Given that the 2004 shares so much in common with the 2005, I would be hesitant to put forth such a bold claim of "JTG" on the M25 particularly given the performance seen by steagall's *FIVE* forward-head setup, and even more so in that he cited that he was ticketed at 400 ft.

However, there's a caveat to this.....

His setup, let's reiterate, was the following:
- M25 (thus: two heads) J15 revision, upper/main grill, flanking Honda badge
- M35 (thus: three heads) J11 revision, lower radiator opening

While his front setup has 5 (five) heads, total, three of them - the ones actually closest to his noted weak-points - are actually the least effective of all.

Ask anyone, including Blinder die-hards, and they'll still confess that the J11 revision was perhaps among the worst-performing of all the Blinders to-date, and this is a view shared by most, if not all, of the enthusiast community, including many Blinder proponents.

The good news, thus, is that you will have the current Blinder model, the J16 variant, to defend you. And what's more, the J16 has been noted to be rather excellent at its job. It's very possible that with the J16 in-place, you could very well see much better performance than what steagall reported above.

Nevertheless, at the same time, we should still realize that without direct on-vehicle testing of your setup, there's still no guarantees of "JTG."

But you should also put things in-perspective.

I once said the following:

Quote:
The concept of "JTFG" is a tenuous one, at best. The "Officer Fritter meet" held by some of the TX guys proved this to be more than just an academic concern. I think that "true JTFG" can be achievable on the test-course, but in terms of the real-world, all that anyone can truly hope for is just sufficient time to slow-to-PSL / reasonable. Too many factors conspire to shift the favor-of-balance towards the enforcement attempt.
It's my personal belief that, although in certain areas of the country/world, a "true JTFG capable" jammer is not only required, but essential (i.e. here in Ohio, where State Troopers will engage at 700 ft. on the open-highway, and where locals will engage at 300 ft.) - that such a jammer still may not perform to their utmost potentials, as based on the fact that each enforcement encounter is unique, and also in so much as there are so many unaccountable variables at play, in each unique instance, that "true JTFG" just may not be possible.

Can it be said here, in steagall's unfortunate experience, that a "true JTG" setup may have saved him?

Possibly - and I don't think that's in any way deniable or debatable. It's a simple fact that a "tested true JTG capable" setup should have, theoretically, been able to avoid that 400 ft. PT that caused him to eat a ticket (and which was then re-confirmed via his own quantitative testing).

But then again, at the same time, I'll wager just about anything that at the time of steagall's unfortunate encounter, that particular enforcer was NOT aiming, specifically, at his setup's specific point-weakness - and that the PT, and the ticket, was, essentially, a fluke.

So what does all this mean, to you?

You've simply got to decide if the cost-for-performance factor of this purchase is justified by your local enforcement profile (sadly, while I cannot help you, specifically, on this one, as I am unfamiliar with the area, I can say what you should look out for and pay attention to - i.e. the type of LIDAR hardware they use, as well as their engagement practices).

Do I think that, if your local profile is not specifically unfavorable, that a Blinder M25 J16 setup, combined with VEIL G4, would offer you good - "ticket saving" - protection?

Yes, I do.

But do I think it will offer you "JTG" protection?

I do not think that anyone can say that, with any confidence, with the current data presented above.

All we know now, for certain, is that your particular generation/body-style of the Honda Accord presents a specific problem spot - a specific hardpoint of high IR-return that cannot be eliminated, without either a switch to an aftermarket (or even OEM, of the 2006-type, if other considerations, such as headlamp mounting position, etc. are similar or exact) front bumper or other "bumper cover" device (such as a bra), or, alternatively, unconventional mounting of the jammer heads. [ Note: these are all possibilities already discussed in the reference thread. ]


TSi+WRX's Sig:- Allen/Usual Suspect "DumboRAT"/One of the Three Stooges

LI Rev.2.8, Ver.7.03 - quad 8.0A-f w/ 8.5 Slim-r
LPP v8.3h(CAN/AU)/10.1s, 2xF/1xR
9500i, Red (4307) w/ZR3
VEIL G4
CR8APL8s, w/LaserShield(F)
Cheetah GPS-Mirror

[ Wifey's FXT -> Bue 8500x50 (Rev.5); LI Rev.2.9, Ver.7.08 - dual 8.5 ]

Me: '05 Legacy 2.5GT Ltd., mildly modified
Wifey: '09 Forester XT, barely modded
Baby-Anna: too short to reach any pedals!
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  #19 (permalink)   IP: 192.251.125.85
Old 2009-03-07
steagall1000 steagall1000 is offline
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Default Jammers

jaminic,

TSi+WRX has made some very good points with alot of stuff I have posted in the past. The point I'm trying to make is The Blinder will give you JTG performance with most officers, because the majority of them shoot right down the center of your car.

If this is the case I would say your chances are most likely JTG. The Blinder if installed correctly is 92% effective against most laser guns. Install and perfect alignment and leveling of the heads will give you the performance you see in my videos, with officer encounters.. All that matters is that you have more than enough time to slow down. There is no such thing as a true JTG Jammer!!! Even the LI, LPP get punch-throughs. Which brings me to this. You can't beat the performance of the Blinder M25 for the price. I have owned mine for 4 years and it has been the best investment I have ever made.
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  #20 (permalink)   IP: 76.190.193.28
Old 2009-03-08
TSi+WRX TSi+WRX is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steagall1000 View Post
jaminic,

TSi+WRX has made some very good points with alot of stuff I have posted in the past. The point I'm trying to make is The Blinder will give you JTG performance with most officers, because the majority of them shoot right down the center of your car.

If this is the case I would say your chances are most likely JTG. The Blinder if installed correctly is 92% effective against most laser guns. Install and perfect alignment and leveling of the heads will give you the performance you see in my videos, with officer encounters.. All that matters is that you have more than enough time to slow down. There is no such thing as a true JTG Jammer!!! Even the LI, LPP get punch-throughs. Which brings me to this. You can't beat the performance of the Blinder M25 for the price. I have owned mine for 4 years and it has been the best investment I have ever made.
Red highlights - That's self-contradictory.

Also, "if installed correctly is 92% effective against most laser guns." - Exactly what does this statement mean?

Does "installed correctly" cover for the problem that you're encountering with your Accord, where the specific weak-point simply cannot be covered?

And how, precisely, is this "effectiveness percentage" calculated?

And how does the term "% effectiveness against MOST laser guns" play out in all of this? Would one want to, say, take an antibiotic that's "92% effective against most bugs?" Isn't it better to specifically target against the LIDAR threat, instead, rather than make a sweeping generalization?

Similarly, can "perfect" alignment and leveling be maintained, realistically, with true road-use?

The vehicle's skin contracts and expands with weather swings. Tire pressures change not only by diffusion of the fill to-atmosphere, but also due to impacts and weather effects. Road-vibrations and road-dirt can both jar the unit's mounting as well as coat the lens. Look at what happened to Cliff, the NA/UK-LI distributor, at the CFL #2 testing. He went to the test straight from a few business trips - road-time of only a week. His jammers' performance was pretty disappointing, at first, but after re-leveling, things improved drastically - as it also did for another event participant, whose vehicle was equipped with a ZR3, but which was not initially well-leveled. With every road imperfection or door/trunk/hood opening jarring the mount, how often should we - realistically - re-level? Is even my suggestion that you do the same whenever you check your tire pressures (every week), sufficient? Or is my more hardcore suggestion, that you re-level any time you expect to have an encounter (i.e. before every trip you take, through a known-enforced area), sufficient? MEM-TEK recommends leveling to within +/- 1 degree, for the ZR4 heads. Is that realistic, given potential street-surface gradients?

And even perfectly aligned and positioned, can you say that a smart trap setup, such as that demonstrated by Fritter in the "Officer Fritter Meet" videos, where he gets his targeted vehicles to nose-down, significantly (coming off an elevated portion of the roadway), that a plumb-level jammer setup would necessarily offer better protection than a jammer setup which may be a bit bubble-positive?

These are all factors which cannot be positively controlled, and as-such, no generalizations made.

The truth of the matter, indeed, as we've all said above, is that *no* jammer can guaranty "true-JT(F)G performance."

Every unique encounter carries these three variables -

Enforcement factors that vary includes:
- enforcement hardware
- enforcement skill

Jamming factors that vary includes:
- jammer efficiency against specific enforcement hardware
- jammer misalignment due to simple repeat road usage/vibration displacement
- jammer head cleanliness
- jammer (or vehicle electrical system) potential (if only momentary) malfunction at time of encounter

Unpredictable factors, including:
- user concerns (including, but not limited to: forgetting to turn on the jammer, lack of optimization of jammer head placement [or the inability to do so, intrinsic to the vehicle, such as is the case with the 03-05 Accords, above])
- enforcer concerns (including, but not limited to: unintentional panning - which is very likely, as I cited above, what caused the PT on steagall's M55 J15/J11 equipped vehicle, a 400ft. ticket)
- weather/ambient effects - i.e. bright ambient lighting, such as incident sunlight glare, can decrease the efficacy of jammers by up to 33%, and also, keep in mind on narrower, local surface streets, the LIDAR beam can literally "bounce" off adjacent/parked vehicles, and elicit a PT by going "around" your jammer coverage
- just blind bad luck (which is also what I attribute to steagall's ticket)

The variability of these three factors, combined, makes each unique encounter one that is not capable of being duplicated in any other context. Each unique encounter carries with it its inherent and unique dangers.

The unfortunate time that steagall's M55 J15/J11 setup suffered punchthrough (and ticket) at 400 ft.?
The two most applicable unique variables - what caused him to get his ticket - was (1) his user limitations, in that his vehicle presented a problematic hotspot and (2) that the enforcer most likely unintentionally panned the LIDAR gun to steagall's weak-point, and caused the PT and the ticket.

We are "behind the gun," jaminc.

It takes *every* factor going right for us, in order for us to be "saved" from a ticket.

Make no mistake about that.

That's why you find so many of us "layering up" in our defenses, either with multiple active systems (which, then, you've *got* to make sure that your setup does not induce "destructive interference" cross-talk) or active/passive layers.

VEIL Guy calls this "Defense-in-Depth," I call it the "Complete Circle of Defense."

Whatever you want to call it, it's synergy, and I think that any countermeasure enthusiast would be unwise, in *not* taking advantage of such.

Look simply at the case of the TruSpeed and the Stalker LZ-1. Both are devices that have traditionally (even the "new" TruSpeed, given its age-on-road, has made its name known, due to this very concern) given jammers trouble - and look at how VEIL, in both its current and past iterations, just literally *EATS UP* these LIDARs.

All that can be asked of these jammers, jaminc, is that they give you sufficient time to slow-to-reasonable/PSL.

What you have to realize, jaminc, is that testing setups are artificial and contrived. Yes, such rigorous setups can help show the RELATIVE effectiveness of any one jammer against another, but it, even at best, simply cannot account for the multivariable and unpredictable nature of any one unique real-world encounter.

Will what you're looking at - either the Blinder or the LI, both plus VEIL - do you well in terms of protection?

Yes, such a setup certainly will.

But can anyone say that either one will protect you 100%, all the time?

Definitely no.

It is important, I feel, that you come to your purchase properly educated and with realistic expectations. Use your own common sense, good reasoning, and good logic, you'll see, by following the above presentations, what I mean.

I'm not selling anything or pushing anything, jaminc. I don't have a vested interest in Blinder. I don't have a vested interest in Laser Interceptor. I don't have a vested interest in VEIL. I don't stand to gain a single cent of profit, nor to curry favor, regardless of what I say - I'm simply trying to paint an accurate picture for you, so that you can decide for yourself.




TSi+WRX's Sig:- Allen/Usual Suspect "DumboRAT"/One of the Three Stooges

LI Rev.2.8, Ver.7.03 - quad 8.0A-f w/ 8.5 Slim-r
LPP v8.3h(CAN/AU)/10.1s, 2xF/1xR
9500i, Red (4307) w/ZR3
VEIL G4
CR8APL8s, w/LaserShield(F)
Cheetah GPS-Mirror

[ Wifey's FXT -> Bue 8500x50 (Rev.5); LI Rev.2.9, Ver.7.08 - dual 8.5 ]

Me: '05 Legacy 2.5GT Ltd., mildly modified
Wifey: '09 Forester XT, barely modded
Baby-Anna: too short to reach any pedals!
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