Laser Jammer Test 2008: Guys of Lidar

WaltBurkett · #11 (**permalink**) 2008-09-30

TSi+WRX,

Thank you for the very comprehensive reply. I am not an expert on these jammers but very much depend on the experts like you to help me decide what would be the best application for my vehicle.
In trying to decide what to replace my SRX with I started a private discussion with Stegal1000.

Here is the part referencing the "juiced" comment by Stegal1000:
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Re: Blinder rear test
Walt,

GOL's testing is not independent when you have a Rep from LI doing installs and shooting at jammers at the test. I cannot say anything further on the Juiced LI. I was told to keep quite and will not say anything further on that. My suggestion for you is to buy the LI and find these things out for yourself. If you start having any problems with it, then go back to the escort or blinder. Sometimes we as consumers have to find these things out for ourselves. Good luck with your purchase, I hope which ever unit you choose performs like you want it to.

Sincerly,

Scott

Quote:
Originally Posted by WaltBurkett
Scott,

In the latest GOL testing I am referencing for our discussion, it shows the Blinder had problems with the Ultralyte. Both the 100PPS and 125 PPS had burn through from 500-1000 feet. I am not so concerned with the 500 foot range as I am the 1000 foot range.
Radar Detector Tests and Reviews by Guys of LIDAR

You mention that GOL were caught “juicing” the LI. Can you expound on that more? What exactly are you referring to?

I am not 100% sold on the LI vs Blinder however if you solely reference the recent GOL testing the LI does look far superior. Are you also saying there testing of the Blinder was somehow compromised?
Walt

steagall1000's Sig:Georgia Boy
Blinder Dealer

Defense System:
Valentineone 3.863
Blinder M-75
Laser Veil
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When referencing the GOL results one can not argue with the performance of the LI. The Blinder did have some "burnthrough" issues with the Ultralyte greater than 500 feet. (My threshold for performance) That is what concerned me with the Blinder. But don't get me wrong, I like Blinder and have had them on my Previous M3 and current BMW K1200S. However going forward and knowing that the SRX on my Porsche is not adequate protection I am in the market for the best of the best at this time. Money aside, it seems the LI is the best but longevity may be the greater determinant I should be looking for. I hear you about a couple or few people having LI head problems but what percentage of total LI sales here in the US is this really a problem? Would Cliff be able to quantify this? Would he? Could I trust his data?
With the narrow frontal section of my Porsche, having a 3 head system would or could possibly offer me a one head failure redundancy in that two heads should offer the protection I am looking for. The middle head would be within the 3 foot protection window of both headlights. (My thoughts anyway)

As for Veil, I hear you. I just have not seen an application that I would be satisfied with on my beautiful headlights. Now if Veil was a clear application...?

My survival rate against laser thus far has been a great lookout doctrine. Seeing them before they see and employ against you. I guess I finely developed that skill as an F-14 pilot. Speaking of which, "burnthrough" was the term we used when our radar was able to see and shoot a missile against an active jamming fighter or bomber target.
I do know the time is coming when I do not see the LEO and that is when I will wish I had the best system in place. Thus my search.

I can tell you one thing I do not like about these systems, at least the Blinder anyway. IRT the installation. I wish the heads had a quick disconnect fitting so changing a head was simple instead of having to un-route the whole wire and then reroute a new one. There are weather proof fittings available for this and weather proof tape could also be used for double protection. (Leon?)

Again, thanks for you response.

Walt

steagall1000 · #12 (**permalink**) 2008-09-30

[quote=WaltBurkett;1941]TSi+WRX,

Thank you for the very comprehensive reply. I am not an expert on these jammers but very much depend on the experts like you to help me decide what would be the best application for my vehicle.
In trying to decide what to replace my SRX with I started a private discussion with Stegal1000.

Here is the part referencing the "juiced" comment by Stegal1000:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Re: Blinder rear test
Walt,

GOL's testing is not independent when you have a Rep from LI doing installs and shooting at jammers at the test. I cannot say anything further on the Juiced LI. I was told to keep quite and will not say anything further on that. My suggestion for you is to buy the LI and find these things out for yourself. If you start having any problems with it, then go back to the escort or blinder. Sometimes we as consumers have to find these things out for ourselves. Good luck with your purchase, I hope which ever unit you choose performs like you want it to.

Sincerly,

Scott

Walt,

It amazes me that when you have a private conversation with someone through a e-mail that you post that persons private conversation out on the forum. This is really childish and unprofessional. Actually its something that those guys over at RD.net would do. So I have a solution to your problem, Please go buy the LI as I suggested before. When you start having problems with it write a private e-mail to TSI-WRX so he can tell you how great of a product the LI is after you have taken the product off your car more than once for either a burned out head or bad Control box. Then write a private message back to me so I can Laugh at you!! Walt I gave you a honest answer and you have broken a trust with me on posting something private between two adults. Please take TSI-WRX with you back over to RD.net. This forum is not for people who go around starting DRAMA. By the way I stand by my e-mail I wrote to you above. It is you that has to find out for yourself in purchasing a Laser Jammer what is right for you.

Veil Guy · #13 (**permalink**) 2008-09-30

Scott,

About the GoL, all I know is that I felt they were an independent group at the time that Leon and I had been in attendance when the group was originally formed several years ago.

If Steve says that the only way they could have tested the new XR gun (which was not provided by anyone else) was to have the rep at the location, then I can understand their decision.

I believe their results are at least as valid as any others, despite attendees and I wouldn't personally discredit an entire test because of this, either.

If you had attended another test (as a sales representative of Blinder USA) would you feel that your presence in and of itself would result in a discrediting of an entire test? Furthermore, even it a test isn't entirely "independent" (whatever that really means) doesn't necessarily mean the results are not accurate.

GoL doesn't hide from their posted results. In fact, I believe they encourage other independent tests to take place.

Sounds right to me...

Veil Guy

WaltBurkett · #14 (**permalink**) 2008-09-30

Scott,

Scott I do not consider a PM sacred and “Top-secret” especially since you are a Blinder rep and you did not say this was in a anyway privileged information. I did not have your e-mail address so I went with a PM. I also do not see a need for any of this to be a secret. You stated to me that the LI in the GOL test was “juiced”. I do not know what that means. You also said you were told not to say any more about it. Why not? I would expect this forum to be one where anyone can bring value to the flow of valid information concerning laser jammers. If you have a claim simply substantiate it. I initially wrote to you because I am looking for unbiased opinions from those that supposedly are experts in the field. I have never disputed that Blinder was a great product simply that the LI seemed superior, at least in the GOL testing.
What I am looking for is validated information to help me with my decision.
So, what exactly does “juiced” mean?
I thought the whole idea of this website was to get away from bogus claims, slander and undocumented innuendo.

Walt

Veil Guy · #15 (**permalink**) 2008-09-30

Walt,

If you don't mind me adding my .02 cents about the current state of laser jammers.

I offer this only as an attempt to help you along with your decision as I am not financially connected with any of these laser jammer manufacturers.

I have seen a number of different laser jammer companies come and go over the years.

Laser jammers appear to essentially come in two flavors. One is LED (light-emitting diode in the IR) and the other is a more elaborate laser diode type (similar to the illuminator of the lidar guns themselves).

There is only one laser diode jammer that I have seen stand the test of time and that is the original LE-10 from Lidatek (which has long since been out of production).

Other laser diode jammer I have seen or heard about appear to have longevity or performance consistency issues. I am not sure if it's because they are "overdriven" or not fabricated to a certain quality standard.

While any given jammer may produce "eye-popping" results on any given day and at any given test, I would be concerned about long-term reliability, especially when one considers the cost and time to install (and/or remove) such a unit multiple times and not including the risk one faces by having either a partial and/or complete failure in the field with one.

Coupling that concern with, the fact, the these kinds of laser jammers have been suggested by a US patent holder of the technology to be potentially patent-infringing in this particular market and coupled with the nature in which some of the laser jammer companies have gone about attempting to market their products in this market, would give me some pause.

On the other hand, the "cooler" operating and reliable LED jammers from either Blinder and/or Beltronics/Escort have proven, while not necessarily providing the absolute top performance in a head-to-head comparison in controlled tests, have demonstrated consistent long-term reliability.

Furthermore given some of the shenanigans that have taken place over the years, I'd even question if some of these jammers are indeed FDA approved as eye safe (despite what a label might indicate).

IMO, a 911 wouldn't be as desirable if its boxer engine wasn't capable of producing top performance over a long period of time.

I liken this to going to the race track to bracket race. Sure, there may be a NOx 9 second car that can produce a win on any given day, but its the steady players that win day in an day out with engine designs are reliable and repeatable.

I know you don't particularly care for the appearance of Veil G4 and that's totally fine, but I believe pairing Veil G4 with any jammer, especially an LED-based laser jammer will provide awesome combined performance along with consistent longevity.

I hope this commentary helps whether you agree or disagree.

Good luck with whatever way you choose to go.

Veil Guy